Pilot signal charger & new battery.

Hallo

Anybody who has tried to make use of the Pilot signal which goes from inside the charger, and through a black wire+connector?

Any suggestion which bms I can test or use on a replacement battery which I am building?

Danke,
Dani

Hi Dani,
Sorry I cant help you with your question, but I would be very interested in knowing a bit more about what type of battery you are building. Thanks.

Regarding the BMS, look here: BMS

Regards
Thomas V.

Hi DaniJ,

Welcome! I guess a lot of people are interested in your project. Maybe you can introduce yourself and let us know a littlebit about your background and your goals.


Cheers,
Matthias

The batteries are from a citroen c-zero.
I have previously installed this pack as a parallel pack in an identical car.
www.myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23...074&sid=231678745e33a232e79e289b9e31f93f

I returned the twizy battery to rci, with much resistance and claims from them.

However now I am about to put together a pack so the twizy can run again.

The cells are relatively inefficient but available LEV50 cells which has about 80% capacity left.

I'm looking in to a setup of 3,4 or 5 in parallel and 14 or even 15 in series dependant on the space I can make.
The only boundies are the physical frame below the car. Then I'll need to make a protection around the battery as well.

So I need to find a bms to start with.

I have these parts ready for assembly:
OEM Delphy HV connector.
HV contactor. 2pcs.
500A fuse
500A fuse housing
80A fuse, for charging
80A fuse housing
50A connector, for charger
5A fuse, for bms.
5A housing.
40A contactor.
Bussbars
Cables.

Do you see what else than bms and bms connector is needed?

My approach is with my experience as licensed installatör, running a small ev-charging firm making charging for other ev users. Besides I am an active member of ev-communities.

I got this funny idea of getting the twizy, and now to assemble the battery from other cells.

Idealy I raise the voltage as far as the space and charger allows (15s probably) to achieve better performance in the motor.

The cells I use actually has bms pcb's from the c-zero. However I am told by sw people how changing/adjusting the bms program to new CAN addresses in any oem bms, like this c-zero bms, is difficult. I'm experienced in hw and HV stuff so I know when to listen to sw folks.
So a new bms will be needed.

Of the same reason it buggs me I'm currently stuck getting the Twizy rolling again because I "only" need the bms. The rest I pretty much know how to deal with.

If anyone has experience on which type of fuses to run from each cell to a bussbar, it could be a help to know.

I'm thinking about using 100-150A fusestrips.
Has anyone experience in if these are safe to use near cells.

I looked at Eska 100A available at conrad..
Does anyone know if they blow at low or high temperatures?
Low temperature is crucial, in my oppinion, for safety of the cells.

DaniJ schrieb: The cells I use actually has bms pcb's from the c-zero. However I am told by sw people how changing/adjusting the bms program to new CAN addresses in any oem bms, like this c-zero bms, is difficult. I'm experienced in hw and HV stuff so I know when to listen to sw folks.
So a new bms will be needed.

Not necessarily. Maybe you haven't completely understood yet what we're doing with the VirtualBMS. It is no BMS by itself, it's just a translator from an existing BMS to the Twizy protocol.

If your C-Zero BMS is still usable, you may simply add an Arduino running the VirtualBMS to get the Twizy going.

If the BMS needs no control commands, you can possibly use that setup without any adaptation of the VirtualBMS (i.e. using the empty "Template" example). If you know the CAN frames the BMS provides you can add them to the Arduino sketch to provide voltage, SOC etc. to the Twizy. If the frames collide with other Twizy CAN frames you can setup the Arduino as a CAN gateway using two CAN shields.

Thank you for your input Michael.

I actually did understand the virtual bms. I thought I was unable to use it on its own because exactly as you say it only communicates the twizy commands without actual cell balancing. Which we both know is important to this type of cells.

I also understood the bms and virtualbms can function separately. So yes I understood.

From your comment I wonder how.
1. To know and check if the oem bms function on its own?

2. Will the charger know when to reduce battery charge, when charging?
..if the oem bms is separately balancing the cells, without telling the charger the actual SoC or cell state, so the charger reduces charge when close to full.

I am eager to reuse this pcb and bms, if I can check/monitor its functioning somehow.
As I also understand from you, and already knew, this requires to know the CAN addresses from where to get these bms values as you mention and put in the arduino virtual bms and passed on for monitoring.

In my functional identical car (same battery pack), iOn, I can check this via an app which knows which addresses are what and displayes the values. I connect my app through an obd adapter.

Normally a BMS works automatically and autonomously. You know it does if it emits all standard data even without any control unit. To check this, I'd begin with checking the CAN output of the BMS running on an isolated CAN bus.

And normally a BMS also won't tell the charger complicated things like SOC or cell states, it will reduce this to something even the most simple charger can understand: a charge current and a charge stop signal. Controlling the charger in this respect is one of the tasks of the VirtualBMS. You control the charge current by the API call:

If you set the amps to 0, charge stops.

You can use the CAN signal your BMS provides for this info and translate that to the API call using the Arduino, because the CAN frames of the C-Zero BMS are known (i.e. as used by your App).

An option for other setups would be to monitor the SOC / voltage levels and use the Arduino to generate your own charging profile. Sadly we don't yet know how to modify the charger voltage, so you need to adapt the resistance for other cell types / layouts, or override the charge control to stop when reaching the desired voltage.

Nice project! Keep going~ (and share your progress - collect your 'likes').

With your list I just wondered if you have the relays on sight... (500A mot, 50A charger, 5A sevcon). From what I know they are controlled from the charger but housed in the Twizy battery. And the charger checks they are working ...

DaniJ schrieb: I have these parts ready for assembly:
OEM Delphy HV connector.
HV contactor. 2pcs.
500A fuse
500A fuse housing
80A fuse, for charging
80A fuse housing
50A connector, for charger
5A fuse, for bms.
5A housing.
40A contactor.
Bussbars
Cables.

That black cable: wasn't it like an unfinished part for a charge station control signal ...

Jekyll schrieb: That black cable: wasn't it like an unfinished part for a charge station control signal ...

Hi.

Used in Twizys with original Type 2 Conectors/Plugs?